Snapshot Serengeti Talk

IMPORTANT: Why there isn't an "I Don't Know" button

  • DZM by DZM admin

    Since I'm seeing this question pop up often here on Talk with the Season 8 data, I thought that I'd make a designated thread linking to a fantastic blog post that answers exactly why Snapshot Serengeti doesn't have an "I Don't Know" or similar button:

    "We need an ‘I don’t know’ button!"

    So, yes, I know you’d love to have an ‘I don’t know’ button. I,
    myself, have volunteered on other Zooniverse projects and have wished
    to be able to say that I really can’t tell what kind of galaxy that is
    or what type of cyclone I’m looking at. But in the end, not having
    that button there means that you get fewer of the annoying, difficult
    images, and also that we get the right answers, even for impossible
    images.

    So go ahead. Make a guess on that tough one. We’ll thank you.

    I hope this helps everyone!

    Posted

  • Antoniaerika by Antoniaerika

    Thank you. i will try my best.

    Posted

  • pincon by pincon

    I agree to this new button "I cannot tell". The button "No animal here" is inadequate when there are animals but too far or too close or just a part of the body not enough to identify.
    pincon

    Posted

  • DZM by DZM admin

    Hi @pincon -- please read the blog post to understand why we do not use any sort of "I cannot tell" button! 😃

    Posted

  • mizliz by mizliz

    How do I post a pic for discussion? Can't find the info. I have my Ipad next to my computer so I can look up on my own but I know you have experienced people who can help me the novice. Thanks.

    Posted

  • tillydad by tillydad moderator

    After you have classified the image and press the finish button you will find that a "discuss" button appears bottom right and next to the "next capture" button. By pressing the discuss button you may then make a comment and it will appear on the "recent" page or you may choose to start a new discussion by choosing from the options on the right hand side of the screen.

    Hope that this helps.

    Posted

  • jct385 by jct385

    How do you know when you've completed a season? How long will it take to reach the end of a season?

    Posted

  • DZM by DZM admin

    If you check the main page, you can actually see the progress bar!

    I estimate that this data will take 2-4 more weeks at the current (decelerating) rates of classification. I do have a fun assignment for everyone once you're all done, though! 😃

    Posted

  • pincon by pincon

    It will be intersting to have the possiblity to count differents species (zebres and gazelles or whatever associations). pincon

    Posted

  • DZM by DZM admin in response to pincon's comment.

    You can indeed count multiple species in one image, if that's what you're saying!

    Posted

  • virginia_woods by virginia_woods

    lol there really should be one if u were trying to get a pic and couldn't tell well then what :0

    Posted

  • jacky0007 by jacky0007

    i see eyes... but nothing else... so... what i do?.... no animal?!?!... but i know it is an animal!!!!...
    must be an button for dont know.... and and it lacks a button with loupe

    Posted

  • tillydad by tillydad moderator

    For the rationale behind a "don't know" button follow the link at top left of this page.

    Images may be enlarged by hitting the CTRL and + or - buttons on keyboard or by enlarging your browser window.

    Hope this helps 😃

    Posted

  • SORINORAH by SORINORAH in response to DZM's comment.

    I want that button too

    Posted

  • gravelmonkey by gravelmonkey

    I would like to see a 'animals tooooooooo far away to identify but are clearly some sort of animal' option UNLESS you want such images labelled as 'no animals' because they can't be identified.

    Posted

  • pommystuart by pommystuart

    What do i do if the animals are to far away to identify?
    I can see two shapes moving, that is all.
    Stuart

    Posted

  • davidbygott by davidbygott moderator

    Sorry guys - just guess, the algorithms will make sense of it all 😃

    Posted

  • jacky0007 by jacky0007

    you need a i don´t know button... i have a pic... i see there are animals... but i can´t say wich one!

    Posted

  • tillydad by tillydad moderator in response to jacky0007's comment.

    Always take a best guess . You can narrow down the options based on many factors such as size,colour,shape and habitat etc. After that process there will be fewer choices and you may then make your best guess as to which species is on show. All images are checked by many people and there is no such thing as a "wrong" answer.
    Hope that this helps, but if you need further help please feel free to contact me or any of the moderators on the site here 😃

    Posted

  • mixu74 by mixu74

    From time to time you press "next" too quickly (to me it happens more often with astronomy projects) and there should be a "back" option since some times there's a mistake that you made in pressing the "next". If you don't know exactly what it is or was that doesn't bother me but if you press onwards by accident and there's still something you'd like to mark then that sucks...

    Posted

  • davidbygott by davidbygott moderator in response to mixu74's comment.

    Solution is to slow down! 😃

    Posted

  • gardenmaeve by gardenmaeve

    This explains very well: http://blog.snapshotserengeti.org/2012/12/14/we-need-an-i-dont-know-button/

    Posted

  • ab3 by ab3

    There really needs to be a "Undetermined distant quadruped(s)" option. There are many images that have something far away, ruminating, but it's impossible for the un- or semi-trained eye to discriminate between even basic categories like "deer" versus "water buffalo." I hate claiming "no animal" when I can see many but not provide sufficient identification information.

    Posted

  • tillydad by tillydad moderator

    Always take a best guess . Each image is checked by many citizen scientists so that a consensus will be reached . If the animals concerned are literally too small to ID, even after enlargement, then "no animal present" is an acceptable choice as tgey will not have triggered the camera.
    For the rationale behind a "don't know button" follow the link at the top left of this screen .
    You mention deer and water buffalo in your question, neither of which can be found in the Serengeti. We have antelopes and buffalo present and you will find many examples as you classify more images 😃

    Posted

  • lmilich by lmilich

    A suggestion: I've seen several shots with some kind of gazelle or impala distant from the camera, and the detail to ascertain which species is simply absent. However, penguin identification here on Zooniverse has a zoom tool. Were you to add this, it may allow us to make a correct id....

    Posted

  • tillydad by tillydad moderator in response to lmilich's comment.

    You can zoom in by using the CTRL and + sign, and zoom out using the CTRL and - buttons . It is also possible by enlarging the window using the zoom function in the browser settings 😃

    Posted

  • CHommel by CHommel

    Sometimes there appears to be one or more animals in the distance, but the images are too small to identify. Perhaps an "animals present but very far away" choice would help? I usually end up saying no animals because I cannot even venture a logical guess.

    Posted

  • CHommel by CHommel in response to CHommel's comment.

    Thanks! I'll try that.

    Posted

  • dodone by dodone

    From a one shot night shot I guessed a warthog and a few shots later saw the animal side on. It was a buffalo! Perhaps we need a 'come back what I said' button.
    I suspect one reason people are loath to guess is that they fear too many wrong guesses might get them blocked from the site and they would loose the fun of these virtual safaris.

    Posted

  • davidbygott by davidbygott moderator in response to dodone's comment.

    Don't worry, no-one is going to get blocked for guessing wrong! Every picture is presented to several different classifiers. For easy pictures there will likely be a consensus, but if there is a wide difference of opinion the experts will look at that picture more carefully.

    Posted

  • molrog by molrog

    It might be helpful if the 'I don't know' button were separated into categories -- one for too near/too far away, one for when eyes are visible at night but the shape of the animal isn't, and another for just unable to identify for another reason.

    Posted

  • fosseljaw by fosseljaw

    I sometimes feel stupid because I have problems telling some of the antelopes apart. I'm truly an amateur to this project and I hope I don't screw up the data by accidently giving the wrong ID.

    Posted

  • fosseljaw by fosseljaw

    I should add that I'm truly enjoying contributing to this project.

    Posted

  • davidbygott by davidbygott moderator

    "Amateur" literally means, "you do it because you like to" and believe me, you are not alone! Many of us are "learning on the job" and every photo gets classified independently by several people, so you will not screw anything up. A quick way to get feedback is to post in the forum any image that puzzles you, and we moderators or other users will explain what it is and why. Also, browse thru other users' posts in the "Recent" section, and you can learn some ID tips that way. Great to have you "on safari" with us, and keep it up 😃

    Posted

  • fosseljaw by fosseljaw

    Just curious. I've had a number of the same photos coming up a number of times. Is this normal? Do I ID them again? Thanks.

    Posted

  • tillydad by tillydad moderator in response to fosseljaw's comment.

    You should not be getting the same images to ID again . It does occasionally happen and if it does then ID them in the normal way . If the problem occurs with a few more different images then please make a note of the image numbers and report them on the "Help" page under a new discussion thread .

    Many thanks 😃

    Posted

  • fosseljaw by fosseljaw

    Sorry, Where is the image numbers located?

    Posted

  • tillydad by tillydad moderator in response to fosseljaw's comment.

    Once you have classified the image, press the discuss button and the image will open in a new window with the number just above the image itself 😃

    Posted

  • john_haslett by john_haslett in response to DZM's comment.

    I thought I'd give it a go but too many pictures have blurry animals too distant to recognise - I understand you don't want an "I can't tell button" but the facility to zoom/expand the photo might well get round that issue. You might also want to consider a flag showing animal/s present that could then identify that photo/photos for a senior reviewer to look at or to be taken offline - on the other hand accuracy to that degree might not be important to you?

    Posted

  • tillydad by tillydad moderator in response to john_haslett's comment.

    You can enlarge the images by using CTRL and + ( - for decreasing ) or by expanding your browser window . While it would be great to be able to ID every animal sometimes that is not possible . Always take a best guess based on size, colour, habitat and this will then be compared with others classifying the same image until a consensus is reached . If a consensus cannot be reached the image is withdrawn for review or for for retiring, but most of the time a consensus is reached .
    As you gain experience in classifying you will soon start to recognise the tell tale signs that will aid a positive ID . You can also ask as many questions as you like as you come across different things and someone will always try to help you . Hope that this helps 😃

    Posted

  • jean-marion by jean-marion

    I will indeed have a guess when I don't know which animal (or part of one) that I'm looking at, but it would be good, in the case of animals on the distant horizon, to have the opportunity to have more than one guess without making it seem that there are several different kinds of animal in the shot.

    Posted

  • davidbygott by davidbygott moderator in response to jean-marion's comment.

    Many different people get to vote on each image, each gets 1 guess, so the end result is the same; the degree of consensus or of disagreement between observers gives an index of the reliability of ID for any particular image.

    Posted

  • diamondone1999 by diamondone1999

    What do I do if the animal is too far away to classify?

    Posted

  • davidbygott by davidbygott moderator in response to diamondone1999's comment.

    Give it your best guess. This thread has some tips:

    https://talk.snapshotserengeti.org/#/boards/BSG0000005/discussions/DSG0001k43

    Posted

  • joysalso by joysalso

    Ok, I think I get it. We are supposed to give a guess if we can't be sure and maybe click on discuss but why isn't there a zoom option other than the browser's?

    Posted

  • davidbygott by davidbygott moderator

    I think it's an issue of storage space on the server. There are millions of image files. Zoom option is really only useful if you have images large enough that zooming reveals extra detail. You would probably only need that facility for 1% of the images here, so while the original images may be 3MP or 5MP, they are shrunk down to a size which is adequate in most cases. Smaller image size also enables faster loading.

    With a little practice you'll get quite good at ID-ing those little blobs on the horizon 😃

    Posted

  • ltcsallen by ltcsallen

    I wondered how to classify domestic animals. Saw what I think we're goats but didn't see a domestic button to push. Any ideas how to classify these?

    Posted

  • maricksu by maricksu moderator in response to ltcsallen's comment.

    Yes, we classify all domestic animals (cattle, sheep, goat, donkey, dog) as 'Cattle'.

    We see quite a lot domestic animals in Extended Survey season, more info in here 😃

    https://talk.snapshotserengeti.org/?_ga=1.256799691.1394240084.1478376452#/boards/BSG0000006/discussions/DSG0001l9y

    Posted

  • maricksu by maricksu moderator

    Also in these following links is useful info about 'why there is not I don't know button' and 'how the answers are turned into final dataset' 😃

    https://talk.snapshotserengeti.org/#/boards/BSG0000006/discussions/DSG0000dxb

    https://blog.snapshotserengeti.org/2012/12/14/we-need-an-i-dont-know-button/

    https://blog.snapshotserengeti.org/2016/05/10/hot-off-the-presses-get-your-good-data-right-here/

    Posted

  • clf by clf

    How about a "none of the above" button? I'm looking at what I really think is the ear of a horse. It's brown and can't be a zebra. I work with horses. I'm really sure I know a horse's ear when I see one. "Horse" is not an option. I have no idea what to do with this one!

    Posted

  • maricksu by maricksu moderator in response to clf's comment.

    Hi clf,

    Give it your best guess and then please post the image to Talk, so we try to help to figure that out. But it is a simple fact, that no horses are present in the middle of the Serengeti 😃

    Posted